THE GINGER WILDHEART INTERVIEW.. IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN GINGER’S MIND..TO MUTATION AND BEYOND…
It’s hard to believe it was as recently as 2011 that Ginger Wildheart had become so disillusioned with the music industry he was on the verge quitting his life time love of being a professional musician to seek out are more reliable source of income. Enter Pledge Music, the online service allowing artists to deal directly with their fans. Within six hours of posting a video to promote his idea of releasing a triple album, his Pledge campaign had hit it’s 100% target of covering the costs to make such a record. In the end it a reached a whopping 594% and broke all sorts of Pledge records. It also put Ginger back in the positive media spotlight and even saw him interviewed on Bloomberg News Intl, who were eager to talk to the man who may just have helped deconstruct the music industries entire business module. The 555 album was a monumental release, highlighting a multitude of styles which threw constant creative curve-balls to his dedicated followers. More importantly it opened a recording door for Ginger and thankfully he’s never looked back.
Ginger Wildheart’s latest release Mutation III – Dark Black is the third release from his Extreme Metal, Punk crossover merchants, MUTATION. The album is a full on attack of the senses, it’s fast, barbaric, bed wetting stuff which requires a few listens just to get your bleeding ears in tune with the aural assault unfolding before your trembling lobes.
OrignalRock.net’s Guy Shankland caught up with Ginger for a frank, insightful and disarmingly honest chat. On the table for discussion, the possibility of a new Wildhearts album, the current situation with Hey Hello! His solo acoustic album Ghost In The Tanglewood. And also how writing and performing helps him to combat and deal with his own mental health issues.
First on the conversational menu is the unholy noise that is, MUTATION. Check out Mutation’s new video for Hate below!
OriginalRock. Mutation III – Dark Black is a really full on album, how do you go about starting to write an album like that, let alone recording it, it sounds so brutal, but also strangely cathartic at the same time?
Ginger Wildheart. It’s like anything else that I do really, it’s getting it out of my system. If I feel that I’ve just had a good creative shit, then it’s worked. A lot of people think it’s just a noise, it isn’t really, it’s the chipping away at block of stone until you get the other side. My head at the best of times is just awash of white noise and riffs, fury aggression and anger. It is massively cathartic to get it out and successfully onto record and than have people come back say that it did something good for them. There are also people coming back saying it’s a load of racket, and they’ve got a point as well. But there’s a lot people saying it’s their go to record when they’re not felling a hundred percent and they need that extra kick up the arse to get them going. There’s nothing really that provides the same sense of success as effectively getting across something as personal as mental health out on to the actual grooves of a record. Working with Scott Lee Andrews is really handy because he shares a lot of my problems as well, its really handy to have someone saying yep, that sounds authentic, or legit. Basically it all comes out of honesty really.
OR. When I listen to your acoustic tracks on ‘Year Of The Fan Club’ or ‘Ghost In the Tanglewood’ I would say their more reflective, almost looking back after the (depression) clouds have dispersed. Whereas ‘Dark 111’ sounds like you and Scott standing in the eye of the storm, saying this is it, this is as close to bad as it gets and this how were going to deal with it.
GW. That’s a perfect description of what it is it really, us in the eye of the storm and being able to live in the moment. Even if the moment seems a little bit precarious. It’s especially nice to have someone to bounce off of, who understands what your doing and just like the illness itself , it’s always good to have someone to talk with ,bounce off and see yourself reflected in others. This is exactly what were doing with Mutation. Between the both of us were our own support group really.
OR. When you two are together is it almost, we can say and do anything because we both understand what the other person is feeling to a certain point, so there are no limits on what we can do, it’s actually limitless.
GW. He (Scott) sent me a photo the other day, no caption or anything, just a picture of Jack Nicholson and the huge Indian from One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest. It doesn’t seem like such a big thing if someone else is going through it with you. Having spent sometime in hospital because of this sort of stuff, I can say there’s no better thing than a room full of people who don’t need for you to describe how your feeling. They know how you feel and don’t judge. There’s a song on ‘The Ghost In The Tanglewood’ album, ‘Daylight Hotel’ which about that .You get groups of people in Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous which is great but there is nothing like that for people with mental health issues. It’s the next thing that needs to be done, try to put those people in a room with other people so they can just open up without feeling like social lepers. It still feels like we still don’t get it, I mean there’s a six month waiting list on the NHS to get even seen. I mean who’s depression waits six months, it’s a dangerous game that they’re playing. I don’t know how many deaths are caused by the governments lack of care and attention, but lets not get into politics, Christ, that’s another interview in itself. It always been the same though the government have never invested in mental health research, in fact their cutting investment in it. It should start at school with education and awareness so even going into it, the sufferers themselves don’t feel alien, they understand what to do. This thing doesn’t just stop with the person going through it. We need to keep talking about and not stop talking about it, it’s one of the big killers out there and people still don’t take it seriously, which is beyond frustrating.
OR. Your taking Mutation out the road in October, I have to ask how on earth are you going to replicate these songs live, I know you like a challenge but this, this is going to be something else,
GW. Well funnily enough we’ve just recorded a video for one of the songs ‘Hate’ and it was a bit of challenge. There was talk of booking dates in Japan and the UK, so we thought we’d better see what we sound like as a live band. So we recorded the video live in the recording studio, and it sounded amazing. As a three piece it’s a lot more direct, bombastic there’s more Motorhead about it. It’s still live but with that uncompromising approach, it sounded great and you’ll be seeing the video soon. In that spirit of power trio’s and in the absence of Motorhead a good vicious trio is just what people need right now.
OR. Whose going to be performing with you in the live band.
GW. It’s me Scott Exit and Denzil.
OR. That’s a pretty heavy line up then,
GW. Yeah I mean they’re all great players, these guys lose themselves in the moment and what in they’re doing, we reach the end of a song and just feel like we’ve had our head bashed in. It’s that kind of performance and devotion that I need Mutation to have. If anyone’s up there winging it or phoning it in, it’s gonna fall apart. Especially in a three piece no-one can be the lazy guy. Fortunately we’re all on the same page both mentally and emotionally as far as the music’s concerned.
OR. Your heading out on the road for a few sporadic acoustic dates, one in Worcester, one in London and you’ve just been announced as support for The Levellers for their Sheffield date in July, before touring with Mutation. Are these just acoustic shows, the Islington date has been advertised as a Songs And Words, type of show. And are these dates to promote ‘Ghost In Tanglewood’ or is it just a bit of everything?
GW. Well it’s part of that same process, ‘Ghost In The Tanglewood’ is the opposite side of the coin of pathological honesty really, and the acoustic thing makes more sense. I haven’t really done that many acoustic gigs. When you read something like Frank Turner’s book, he played a billion gigs before the audience was in double figures. I’ve got a lot of ground to make up for were playing acoustic is concerned. It’s that direct communication with the fans, there’s nothing to hide behind and I really need that. So I’m going to try and fit it as many acoustic gigs as possible. The thing at the Union Chapel (Islington) is probably going to be in the form of a live band and that’s mainly going to be concentrating on ‘Ghost In The Tanglewood’. But again it’s just to get that feeling that, this is also something that I do regularly by going out there and doing it. The real promotion for ‘Ghost In The Tanglewood’ is not going to start until next year. So this is me just earning me stripes in the meantime.
OR. Just to keep it all bubbling away in other words,
GW. Yeah but not just getting used to going on stage with just you and an acoustic guitar, but actually getting to love it. It’s very cathartic and something that I hope’s going, well make me crave it if I’m not doing it. So there is two sides to what I want to do in the future, the real stripped down bare almost walking onstage naked of the acoustic Tanglewood stuff and there’s the sheer bomb blast of Mutation. At that’s really were I find myself right now, I haven’t got any space left in me head or heart for anything else really.
OR. You always have a lot of projects bubbling away on the stove, always dipping out of one and into another. Do you find that you need to keep yourself busy, also if you find one becomes a little bit to samey you can go on to the next one and pull whatever you need from that.
GW. Absolutely!, the more things I’m doing the less it kind of poisons the well. I did something called G.A.S.S which was a a years membership, fan club, subscription type thing, were people got three songs a month, three original songs. There’s no style or even a hint of a genre throughout all the songs. Which is really good and everything, but also a great way of confusing the f**k out of people. This way I’m thinking it’s a just bit more linear to have the melodic introspective acoustic stuff and just fast forward all that it does, not trying to incorporate to many styles, same with Mutation really. I am guilty of cramming to many different ideas into the same song or band and that’s just because my record collection is mental. If you asked to pick one style of music I probably couldn’t. Which is why when people ask me are you going to do another Wildhearts album, I say, you really wouldn’t want me to make another Wildhearts right now because it would be un-listenable.
OR. You have just nicked my next question, because I have a couple of Wildhearts questions if you don’t mind? (silence then a half hearted nooo)
The first one was going to be, is there ever going to be a new Wildhearts album?
GW. Well obviously Danny (McCormack) has just had his lower leg amputated and so I want to do a Wildhearts album at some point to buy him a leg. To get a really good quality prosthetic leg and to see the whole thing through. All the cardio he’s going to need to do and regular check ups, I mean that’s not gonna be cheap, so that’s a good reason, as far as I’m concerned anyway, to do a Wildhearts album. There’s a feel good factor, a significance behind it other than just pacifying a bunch of people who wish it was still 1993. And that’s the danger you run into with The Wildhearts or anything that’s been going that long, it’s that danger of the second worst ‘N’ word in the world, and that’s obviously nostalgia. I hate nostalgia, as does anybody who enjoys anything exciting does. Y’know nostalgia is the enemy of creativity and that’s where you fall in with The Wildhearts, it just feels like your going back and shagging an ex-missus or something. There’s no spark of excitement. If were doing it to get someone a prosthetic leg then it feels legit to me.
OR. I went to the Christmas show in Wolverhampton last year , which was just stunning. But when Danny came on stage there was a real feeling inside the venue of celebration and thank Christ, at last, This band have been through so much and here they are sharing a stage again. It didn’t finish it for me but it did put a bow on The Wildhearts, does that make sense to you?
GW. It meant a lot to us as well, obviously you get a ton people going, oh it’s so great to see Danny up there with you…If You can image it from me and Danny’s perspective, it was… surreal, to be on stage together. You know we had fallen out and not spoken to each other for ten years and then your onstage together, and then you really can’t remember what the beef is. It’s like, all I can remember is the good times we’ve had. To be able to say that all The Wildhearts are still, touch wood, alive and were all still speaking to each other is a massive thing and it’s not something I just wanna jump into and get to serious about. I think it’s just a great statement that things are alright and when it does come to the time of doing a new Wildhearts album Danny will obviously be playing on it, it’ll just be nice to have those four guys back together, albeit with a couple of bits and pieces missing, we are all still pretty much a hundred percent and that’s, that’s just bizarre.
OR. And that’s something worth celebrating.
GW. We’ve all lost so many friends over the years with drugs and alcohol, just living a lifestyle that involves not looking after yourself very well. You start hitting your late forties and they’re dropping like f**king flies and the fact that we’re all still breathing , you know the irony’s not lost on me. That was never part of the plan to be around at fifty.
OR. And what about Hey! Hello! Any update on that?
GW. Mmmm, wow, it’s hard to talk about Hey! Hello! Without dragging negativity into the conversation and I refuse to deal with negativity so…..(deep breath) Hey! Hello! Is just a very unlucky band, from the singers we’ve had, to the labels we’ve been dealing with. To the other people who are supposed to be professional or employed in a professional capacity and have just not really cared about the band or the fans or anything like that.
OR. So has Hey! Hello! Been stuck at the back of the shelf, behind glass, with smash in case of emergency sign on it?
GW. The thing about Hey! Hello! Is we are all very fond of each other, we see each other a lot, we keep in touch with each other. It’s not the sort of thing were I’m going, I’m quitting the band, it’s a friendship more than just a group. Y’know if we’re all able bodied and feel like doing it I don’t see any reason why we can’t revisit that in the future. It was just really expensive to run, everything we were investing in was just…paying for an album to be recorded and then the singer leaves. Any other band the singer would leave before you had recorded the fucking album, so then you’ve gotta go and do the whole thing over again. I feel knocks like that, it’s like, I’m done with this fight, I need to get out of the ring.
OR. I’ve got a Rebellion (Punk festival) flyer in front of me with your name on the back, are you playing or being interviewed there this year?
GW. No, because, well again, if I book one gig a year it will be on the same day as five or six other offers come in, can you play here, can you play there. We’ve had some Irish dates come in and we never go to Ireland and I get a ton of shit for it, and it’s not me, really. Trying to take a band to Ireland as part of a tour, you’ve got play three gigs to pay to play Ireland. You haemorrhage money going over there. So we’ve booked some Irish gigs and we cannot cancel them, because I would get lynched, I really would. We are playing Dublin (and Belfast) that weekend, so it’s one of those things. If Abba reformed and said do you wanna support, I’d be like , I can’t I’ve got Ireland, and I can’t cancel Ireland again, they would hate me and with good reason. I’d planned to take me little boy, who’s eight years old and little Punk and I really wanted to take him to his first Punk festival. But it’s not gonna happen this year, I’m gutted because I love Rebellion, it’s my favourite festival.
OR. I have been speaking to a chap called Gary Davidson, who has just finished writing a book called ’Zealot In Wonderland’, which you’ve done a small introduction for. Have you read it, if so what do you think, or thoughts on it?
GW. I read it when he first wrote it and it was like a fans stream of consciousness, you know the writing, it wasn’t much to do with the band, more to do with him. But he’s gone away and re-edited and re-edited it again and it’s good. If it were about The Ramones or Sparks, I would buy it, because as Ramones and Sparks nut I want everything to do with them, any insight or documentation there is. So Wildhearts fans will love it and yeah, I like it.
OR. Finally what does the next twelve months have in store for Ginger Wildheart?
GW. Touring, lots and lots of touring. With both Mutation and Ghost , but not at the same time!
And that was that apart from a brief chat about his incredibly loyal fan base who never let him down and more importantly look out for each other. Your never alone in a Smiley bones T-shirt. Also whether Mutation would be better suited to playing the Heavy Metal Bloodstock festival or The Rebellion Punk festival. Ginger’s answer was to play both, just to find out which set of attendees would fully embrace Mutation into their tattooed breast. My predication is both would openly accept and love them. Even if you don’t like the music, it’s impossible not to admire someone who leaves it all out there every time they take to the stage or enter the studio. Ginger has the unnerving gift of simultaneously being able to break your heart with candid lyrics, raise your spirits with pure Pop/Rock chorus’s and melt your brain with riffs so heavy they should carry a government health warning. Ginger Wildheart is the modern day musical hero of both head and heart.
GW Plays The Marrs bar in Worcester on June 24th (This Saturday), then Sheffield Leadmill (supporting The Levellers) July 15th and two dates in Ireland, Belfast Ballymena 4th August, The Sugarclub In Dublin, August 5th. London’s Union chapel August 19th, along with his annual Hootenanny at the Slade Rooms Wolverhampton on October 28th. Mutation are also heading out on the road in October/November, for a full list of live shows and up and coming releases please check either his website, Pledge Music or Facebook.
*Stop Press, Japanese Mutation tour dates have just been added*
Ginger is also on Twitter @GingerWildheart and well worth a follow.
For more information on how to purchase the incredibly enjoyable and insightful book ’Zealot In Wonderland’ , or just to read the story behind it and even a grab a few free excerpts and extra interviews, check out the books illuminating website.