The Wildhearts remain a British institution of Rock/Pop/Metal brilliance that continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The four corners of a band that means so much to many have split, again. Danny, CJ, Ritch and, of course, Ginger are once more estranged. The ‘Hearts rollercoaster may be parked up for some time as Ginger embarks on a tour with his Sinners while CJ releases a new ‘Best Of’ album, the excellent ‘Lives’ along with his thriving hot sauce venture. Ritch is back in GTA, who has also just released a brand new (and face spanking) studio album ‘Pass Me The Conch’, while bassist Danny McCormack is writing his long-awaited and warts ‘n’ all autobiography, ‘I Danny McCormack, Once A Wildheart, Always a Wildheart’. So while the main body has been temporarily cast aside, its vital organs, however, are busy at work, rebuilding, re-energising and regrouping.
Saturday, September 24th at 3 pm, I wander through the uber-hip and uber wanky Shoreditch area of London. I make it to the red neon sign of the XOYO club to be greeted by tour manager all round top man Gav McCaughey, standing outside patiently waiting for the promoter to arrive.
After a brief (hey) hello, I follow CJ Wildheart through the rabbit warren corridors of his, Scott Sorry and GTA’s tour bus. We make it to the intimate lounge area, and after CJ has informed me, “I’ll answer anything; I’ve got a brain, whether it’s the truth or not, that’s for your readers to discern”, off we go.
Interview One.
GS. This is the tour’s last date with GTA and Scott Sorry, and it feels like this is a new beginning. Judging from your social media posts, you’re obviously delighted, so how’s the tour been?
CJ. “First off, I’m a pretty chilled guy. I come from a band notorious for falling out and other problems. In my online persona (pausing), I always try to stay positive and don’t tend to share my personal life online. A few little bits and pieces, my Dad died recently, and my Uncle died during this tour. Uncle Josh, who my son is named after. (GS, Sorry to hear that.) It’s his funeral today, but I don’t let it (changing tact). Life throws you shit, and for some people, the tiniest little thing will ruin their life. I’m not a melodramatic person. If I don’t like something, I’ll just say it, but I don’t lose my shit over tiny things. Generally, because of that, I’m on the level. This tour is amazing. Because you’ve got three bands, and we all get on. Hardly anyone drinks and there are definitely no fucking drugs on this bus. If I found anyone doing drugs, I’d probably kick them off the bus immediately. I don’t want to be around that shit anymore, and there are no kids on the bus, a few youngsters. I don’t mind people doing it but just keep that fucking shit away from me. I won’t be around people who do that anymore because it destroys lives it’s destroyed my main band and put me in a position I never ever want to be in again. This tour is amazing because I’m on tour with adults, decent people who don’t fuck about. They’re here to play shows, hang out with their mates, and have a good time.”
GS. Yes, I see you’ve moved on and…(CJ Cutting in)
CJ. “There is a time and a place for everything, and the Nineties was a long time ago. If you’re still living your life like it’s the nineties and you’re in your fifties… you need to slap yourself, grow up and get a grip. Simple as. I have no problem with people doing what they want; if they want to kill themselves slowly, they can do that; I just don’t want them doing it around me. Life is like an album; you have your A-side, and alot of friends and people I’ve been in bands with are on their B-Side now; chill, chill, just wind down a bit.”
GS. Congratulations on ‘Lives’, which is a spectacular album. How hard was it with your vast back catalogue to pick, and it’s a fair number, twenty tracks?
CJ.”It wasn’t hard because I’m only ever going to release one ‘Best Of’, but yes, there is alot of albums to choose from, but they are my favourite songs from each period of my career. Some of them almost chose themselves because they were minor hits like some Honeycrack stuff. ‘Lemonade Girl’ was the single of the week in the NME (ask your Dad how important those music papers were.) Some of The Wildhearts B-Sides are really popular with The Wildhearts fans, ‘Hit It On The Head’ and ‘Little Flower’ was always a popular song off ‘Rennasaiance Men’. The main thing for me with this ‘Best Of’ was not to make a compilation tape and the remastered banner. Remastered is just re-cubed, basically, and it’s the same songs repackaged, and you’re getting people to buy the same shit. So I had to do the value for money thing. Anything pre-solo stuff with Jason Bold not drumming on had to be rerecorded with Jason added on those tracks. So he plays the drums throughout the album, and everything sounds like it’s from the same volume of music. In this day and age, you should never make people buy a ‘Best Of’ Cd. They can just go on Spotify and compile that thing for themselves; c’mon, you should never charge someone for that privilege.”
GS. Plenty do, though.
CJ.”There are plenty that do, but their ‘Best Of’ is just an easy way of making money, and they’ll tack on some crap new song or shitty demo. People shouldn’t be hearing demos they’re not for resale.”
GS. That’s a hard one, isn’t it? Because some fans want to hear a song at its inception, they want to see the process.
CJ. “Some stuff should be given away, you know… With how rampant social media is, you can update fans and let them into things with little snippets of real life; you shouldn’t charge for it; that shit’s free. People put enough pictures of their babies, their food, what colour their shit is, where they’re eating, who they’re seeing, where they’re going. It’s no different for us, but we’re on a tour bus now. You should get those updates because it’s life.”
GS. If you had to stop now, and when you look back, which period of your career are you most proud of?
CJ. “Now, right now. Because everyone I’ve been in bands with has had troubles. I think this industry attracts very off-centre people—prone to addiction, self-abuse and unnaturally hurting others. There are periods of my past when I look at my behaviour, and I’ve been thoroughly ashamed, and with most of that behaviour, I’ve been under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I’m in a period of my life now where I’m a father to an eight-year-old, and I believe I’m a really good father. I don’t drink, I don’t do drugs, I’m still playing in a band, and I’ve just released a ‘Best Of’ album. I’ve just done the best tour I’ve probably ever done in my life, not because we got up to, like crazy shit and pretending we’re Motley Crue. No, it’s because we went on stage last night, did a brilliant gig, and was on tour with THE best bunch of people; if that’s not winning, I don’t know what is. We haven’t played the biggest shows of my life, not by a long shift, possibly some of the smallest shows I’ve ever done, but they were probably the most enjoyable. I loved some of the big shows we did, but I’m fifty-five this December and the fact that this shit is still making me happy right now, I think that’s alright (smiling).”
GS. I’ve also read about a new solo album, ‘Split’, so give us the low down.
CJ. “I started to make ‘Split’ this year, but then other shit got in the way, so it’s ongoing. ‘Split’ is five hardcore Punk songs vs five Punk-Pop songs. It’s just what I am; I’m split between proper melody, riffs and proper anger. I always use the hardcore stuff on my solo work, and it’s kind of getting tougher and harder as I’ve been getting older. I don’t want to go down that mellow route. There’s never been any Folk or Country in me, and that type of music has never spoken to me. My parents were from the tropics, so Reggae and Calypso talked to me. My Dad was into Country and Western. I always used to think he played it to taunt me, and my Mum always used to play Indian music with Indian girl singers. I could never go down that route; for me, it’d be like selling out. I want to go out on fire, and I love Punk and Hardcore music, but I also love melodies, so this album will hopefully showcase both. Ten tunes, five Hardcore Punk vs five Punk-Pop. A vs the B side.”
(We start talking about the size of venues CJ, Scott and Ritch are playing on this tour. CJ confirms that it’s a “few hundred each night”. He continues.)
CJ. “I’ll be honest, in the current climate and with many bands either postponing or pulling tours, (pausing) the fact that we carried on knowing that we are playing to fifty or sixty per cent capacity because people can’t afford to go out. We’re viewed as a luxury; I don’t know why. Same with eating out, going to the theatre or cinema, and I understand that my energy bill has tripled overnight. I can’t afford to do alot of things I could do, plus The Wildhearts aren’t operating anymore, and that’s a big chunk of income which has disappeared, again.”
GS. When we spoke last year, you had covid, but we talked about The Wildhearts London show at The Electric Ballroom. You said your usual London guest list could be up to thirty people for that show, but for that show, it was three. We now have this devastating cost of living crisis, so it feels like musicians and the industry have been put up against a financial wall and repeatedly punched in the face.
CJ. “It’s (the music industry) been truly ravaged, and its bang bang bang, one (disaster) after another. It’s not just the music industry; it’s the world, and it’s awful, but as my Dad would always say, “life goes on”. I’m a firm believer in that; you’ve got to keep on striving. My online sales are down fifty per cent, but I’ve got people telling me their sales are down a hundred per cent. They say I’m fortunate, and it’s a testament to what I sell and how loyal my fanbase is.”
GS. This is a tricky question and one we’ve spoken about before but is it now financially sustainable for you as a professional musician to do this, along with the sauce, full-time?
CJ. “Again, I’ll be honest with you; there is no way I could tour at this level all the time; it’s not sustainable, and I know both Ritchie and Scott couldn’t do it. They’ve both got day jobs but being a musician is my bread and butter and always has been. I’m in a position now… (changing tact), I almost was going to give up before this tour, and it was nothing to do with the lack of money I was earning. It was to do with how horrible touring (with The Wildhearts) last year was and how things had been left, almost destroyed. I was fed up. Fed up with putting my heart into everything and having it end so badly. This tour has shown me that you can go out on tour and not have shit happening, and you can get to the end of a tour without arguments and trouble. I will do another solo tour next year when my album comes out, but I have to find a part-time or another band to join at some point early next year. If I don’t do that, all I care about is bringing home some bacon so I can look after my son, family and loved ones. That’s why I do this. I love making music, and I’m fortunate that I can still bring home some cream from making music but don’t get me wrong for one second. If I need to get a day job to support my family, I’ll do it without hesitation. I am a wheeler and dealer, and this tour ends today; and on Monday, I’ll be signing four hundred copies of my vinyl album ‘Live’. I need to package them up and send them out, plus I’ve got a hot sauce sale going on Friday. I also made a forty-five-minute tour movie, which needs editing, and I’ve recorded a live album on this tour which will be coming out as a double CD/DVD set. I’m also recording my next solo album, and I was going to start selling these box guitars (Devilspit design, picture below), but sadly that’s not happening. So I’m always thinking, my mind whirring over. Me, Scott and Ritchie have to sit down and have a chat about doing something together as well.”
GS. That was my next question because you’ve all been getting up for the encores. You’re left with three Wildhearts if you take Ginger and Danny out of the equation. I’m not sure what or how you would market it as?’
CJ. “Firstly, there’s nothing wrong with either Danny Or Ginger. Someone said, why don’t you call it CJ’s Wildhearts? Absolutely not! I can’t think of anything worse, and I would never do that to The Wildhearts. There’s only one Wildhearts, and that’s with Ginger fronting it and me by his side; we have that dual harmony guitar thing which is a huge part of The Wildhearts sound. Myself, Ritchie and Scott were all in The Wildhearts, and we’re like brothers, and it’s a complete no-brainer. I think the three of us could make a pretty interesting album and put something together that I think The Wildhearts fans would love to hear.”
GS. I know and speak to alot of Wildhearts fans, and there is an awful amount of love for Scott and if for whatever reason Danny wasn’t available, Scott is the only replacement for them. Especially with all the fundraising that was done when he was ill.
CJ.”I think with The Wildhearts, we’re a great band, and I think we’ve made some really, really good music over the years and decades, but there is something fundamentally wrong and flawed in the band. It causes alot of heartache, anger and pain.”
GS. Can you ever see yourself back on stage with Ginger, Danny and Ritch?
CJ. “Yeah, the only way I can see is a no drink and no drugs policy. It has to be clean. This tour is proof that if people are clean…Alcohol and drugs, if you want to do it, fine, but if you’re doing it every day and travelling together, it causes many problems. I can’t be around it anymore; I just can’t.”
GS. And that’s for you and your mental health.
CJ. “Yeah, I’ve struggled alot in my adult life; I just don’t talk about it. I won’t reveal much about my personal life online; I never have. You’ll hardly ever see a picture of my girlfriend and me or my son or hear about what’s happening in my home life. Everyone has struggles, and everyone deals with them differently.’
GS. Let’s talk hot sauce because you’ve opened your online shop for a limited period. You’ve said the sauce has been a lifeline for you while taking on a life of its own. Run us through what’s going to be available.
CJ.”I’ve got three garlic sauces, mild, medium and fucking hot. Three original sauces, mild, medium and fucking hot! And a ketchup, blood ketchup. I’ve had other varieties, but they’re the ones that sell. The one that sells the most is the original Devilspit, but it all ticks over. Every time I have a sale, we have a new T-shirt design and tea towel, and sometimes we have cushion covers or chef aprons. It’s imperative I keep things fresh. The sauces, that’s my baby, and it’s based on my Mum’s own recipe. It’s something that started back in 2014 and is still ticking over; I can’t believe it, to be honest with you. It’s bought me alot of respect, and I have many people who are only into my sauce, they’re not really into the music, and that’s quite cool.”
GS. Tell us about your ideal next twelve months.
CJ. “The ideal is to put out my new solo album, do a couple of hot sauce sales, and tour the album. Hopefully, me, Ritchie and Scott will get our shit together and do an album, and I will join a proper working band who take me out on tour and pay me a decent wage, and for that, they’ll get someone who can sing, play the guitar and hopefully look good on stage.”
Amen, brothers and sisters, amen.
CJ Wildheart’s new Best Of ‘Lives’ is available now via Devilspit Records.
For CJ’s hot sauce two-week presale, head over to https://cjwildheart.bigcartel.com/
COMING SOON, PART TWO. THE SCOTT SORRY INTERVIEW.
