The Lion Queen
You find me sitting in the dark of the Academy bar waiting anxiously to meet the “girl in the band”. Hayley Cramer, a compatriot and drummer with Pop Evil, joins me to have a quick chinwag about all things evil- well sort of…
A.P. Hello this is Azra Pathan from Original Rock here with Hayley Cramer from Pop Evil who are currently knee-deep in a UK tour. So how has it been going?
H.C. It’s just really nice to be over in Europe you know, we obviously spend a lot of time over in America, so for me to be back here is victorious.
A.P. No place like home!
H.C. Exactly.
A.P. How have the responses been and how have you been finding the tour?
H.C. The responses are better than I expected, as I said we don’t get over here too often so it’s always a bit scary, like “is anyone gonna remember us?” But it’s been great! The crowd’s been singing along and the show’s been fantastic. And it’s great being on the road with The Fallen State as well, they’re good lads. So yeh it’s been a good tour.
A.P. I think I’ll start by asking you, I was just looking at the website the other day and you have the image of the lion, the mane and the skulls in it. What does that symbolise for you and the band as a whole?
H.C. I think the whole kind of artwork for the front of the album, there’s obviously a lot going on in the lion’s mane, and I think that represents facing your fears. The lion is courage but then there’s a lot of demons that we all face every day and it’s going about those things with courage. And you’ll notice, I don’t have it with me in Europe, but on my bass drum heads in America I have my silhouette facing the lion, so it’s a constant reminder for me especially to always go every day facing your fears, so obviously I want the audience to as well but for me walking to my kit every day that’s a real big reminder just face your fears and get out there with courage.
A.P. That’s a great message. I think people will take a lot from that, I think there’s a lot of negativity in the world, I think people need that and music is one of those things that really does bring people together.
H.C. I think this album, there’s a lot of songs about that. And that’s Pop Evil as well. It’s one of the reasons I joined the band. Song like “Footsteps”, “Take it All”, I think it stems from Leigh, he’s been into sports, so sports anthems, like that real kind of uplifting ‘Wooo! We can win! We can take it all!’ but I love that message, I think there should be more music out there driving that message because the world needs it. There’s so many depressing things going on and so many scary things going on, we’re caught in the middle of all the Brexit stuff, we’re caught in the middle of Donald Trump stuff, nobody really knows where the world’s heading and it’s a scary place, and we need more positivity. We need to come together, “A Crime to Remember”, being more united, less divided. So many positive messages on this album and it’s a joy to play them and spread that over the world.
A.P. “Waking Lions” is mine, can’t wait for that!
H.C. Good good!
A.P How do you write songs? Do you write them on your own, do you write as a team? How do you find that works, or what works for you as a group?
H.C. I mean this album was going to be a bit different because I was in the mix. But songs come from anywhere and everywhere. Leigh sometimes takes himself off and writes on his own, sometimes we do it as a collective, sometimes it comes from a guitar lick from Nick. “Nothing But Thieves” came from me sitting, having a cigarette, hearing a wind chime, and I heard this melody in this wind chime and I was like straight to the keyboard, gonna take that! So the songs can come from anywhere, and we all collect together
A.P. it’s great to meet you, just before I carry on, I was at the Stone Broken gig the other day and we met Robyn Haycock. Fantastic to see women finally getting some sort of say.
H.C. We’re on the rise. It’s funny, I was looking up Stone Broken literally just a couple of days ago. But a couple of months ago I got a random email from “Hit Like A Girl” Contest. This is a contest I’ve been watching, it’s been going for the last 8 or 9 years and I’ve always watched it saying ‘I’d love to be a judge on that contest one day’. I haven’t chased it, they literally emailed me, said ‘We’ve been watching your career, we’d love for you to be on the judging panel this year’ and I was just so honored. But it’s amazing over those 8 or 9 years how much it’s grown and when you look at it now, how many female drummers there are out there around the world, not just in England, not just in America, all over the world. It’s really grown in the last few years and it’s exciting. Other things like the Veta Catalogue, they used me on the front cover, ok great, i’m used to it, the novelty “oh a female drummer”, but you open up the catalogue and it’s 50/50. They’ve done an amazing job, it’s not just the one token female drummer in the rock category, and it’s not just the one token female drummer in the jazz category. It’s 50/50. It’s amazing, exciting times. We’re not quite there yet, there’s still some work to be done but we’re getting there.
A.P. Is there any subject matter that you wouldn’t write about or would find difficult to write about?
H.C. There’s always going to be things you can’t say or you feel like you can’t say, we’re still in that world. I don’t think I would ever want to write something that would stir an argument because I think you look at social media and everybody’s got this platform, as soon as they put their opinion out there, it could be a negative thing. You have to be very careful about the things you say. People say to me ‘What do you think about the “Me Too” movement?’ and it’s very difficult cos obviously I want to say something about it but i obviously don’t want to stir this negative pot that’s going on on social media because I also don’t agree with that. I dunno, maybe I think about things in a different way to others. Say something like an anti-bullying campaign, I necessarily fully agree with that. If you make a massive campaign about anti-bullying, that’s not helping the bullies. The bullies need to be helped just as much as the people that they’re bullying. It’s that both sides need to be addressed and making a massive anti-bullying campaign isn’t solving the problem. I’m sure Leigh feels it, it’s tough as a lyricist or anything art-wise where you’re putting your say out into the world. It’s very easy for people to sit at home on their phones or their laptops and just put their status up and not think anything of it. Times that by hundreds and thousands, you have to think about every sentence you say and it’s very difficult in this day and age. You can want to change the world but it’s harder now because it’s so scrutinised. I’d like to think rock and roll is a place to have freedom of speech but I don’t know whether you can. I think the pressure is much more on your shoulders these days. A few years ago, you’d say something, it would end up in the paper then it would be the next day’s fish and chips wrapper. That doesn’t exist anymore, once it’s online it’s online forever. People’s careers have been absolutely ruined, and it’s because we’re now online. Nothing ends up as fish and chips wrappers anymore.
A.P. What kinds of things do you do for fun? Your hobbies and interests when you have the time?
H.C. When I have the time! I’m gonna be going home in a few days, I’m looking forward to being reunited with my dog.
A.P. Oh gosh I’ve got a cat! I’m a cat person!
H.C. It’s ok, I won’t hold it against you! I actually had a dream last night that I had a cat. I’m vegetarian as well so the general care of animals is quite high up on my list, I’m not just a dog person. But I also like inspiring people to go out and do something new, something they haven’t done. Something that’s I’ve done online recently called Wandering Wednesdays. I’m blessed that i get on a tour bus and i get off each day in a new place so part of the job is done for me. Even when I go home, it’s still trying to find things that take you out of your comfort zone and just grow your mind. I think people get very comfortable sometimes and the only way we’re gonna progress as humans is to step out out of you comfort zone, face your fears, “Waking Lions”. It’s a big deal to me and I take pride in trying to get the best out of people no matter who I meet. That’s always the job I want to do, it’s something I’m passionate about. I would class that as a hobby! I think about it a lot. I like reading, I like going to a good English pub. I miss that when I’m away. America has their sports bars and whatever but it’s a very different atmosphere. I was brought up in England, I like a good pub. I like to sit and have a pint in a pub. So that’s something I’m looking forward to.
A.P. I couldn’t leave England, I’d miss fish and chips if anything.
H.C. Going to see my family too. My family are all sort of down Brighton. Get down to the beach. It’s not the best beach in the world but it’s my home beach. The smell of the Brighton seafront, so that’s exciting to me. That’s probably why I’m a dog person. Obviously I’m happy on stage but walking my dog and getting lost for the day is one of my favourite things ever.
A.P. If you could be a fly on the wall in any situation what would you choose?
H.C. I’d like to be a fly on the wall in a crime scene investigation. That’s another hobby of mine, watching crime dramas, like Forensic Files, I have all of Forensic Files!
A.P. Name a song you wish you wrote.
H.C. Do you know, to be honest, Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit”. As soon as it comes in a club, everyone air drums! It’s that intro, everybody air guitars, then those drums kick in and everyone switches from guitar to air drumming! If I ever do a song like that I’ll be happy.
A.P. How do you think the industry has changed for you over the years?
H.C. As we touched on earlier, there’s way more female musicians. It’s hard to say really. As a person I’ve grown up, so part of it is the industry changing and part of it is me changing, not as young and dumb as I used to be! Sort of have to pick my moments being dumb as opposed to be dumb everyday! It depends of how many tequilas I’ve had! How many bottle of Jack Daniels I’ve consumed in the week! It used to be a bottle a day but now it’s like one day in a month I’ll let my hair down. The touring schedule for me now is the busiest I’ve ever been. I have to be a bit more grown up about it, look after my body. I’m getting a bit older, I have to keep my body in check, keep my mind in check. You know the tiredness, the jetlag, the different timezones everywhere. As far as the whole entire industry, the funny thing is there’s a guy coming down tonight who used to work for one of my previous bands and he was initially a fan of the band and he came on board and helped us build our MySpace. That’s a blast from the past! I remember touring when I didn’t have a mobile phone, when I didn’t have wifi or anything. In so many ways it’s so much easier to tour these days. The industry has changed because of Spotify and Apple Music, that didn’t exist when I started. When you’re performing gigs, it’s not about selling your merch or selling your CDs in the shops. When you go to the shops there aren’t many CD signings.It’s not like part of your tour schedule any more, it’s a one-off, whereas it used to be an everyday thing. So it’s a different world but I think generally I like where the industry is at. I think the youth of today listen to so much different stuff, it’s not necessarily what they’re fed on the radio, it’s easier to discover other stuff.
A.P. Having travelled everywhere, what are your fan experiences, what’s the craziest thing a fan has ever done?
H.C. I can’t think of anything majorly weird. I mean there was a fan who brought a whole bag of dog toys for my dog. I mean I never expected that. ‘I brought you flowers last time but this time I thought I’d do a present from my dog to your dog’ so I walked away with a whole load of dog toys! That’s not a horrible thing, that’s a nice thing, I was still a bit taken aback because I didn’t expect to get a whole bag of dog toys.
A.P. We’ll wrap it up by asking which question do you dread being asked?
H.C. I always dread being asked ‘What’s it like to be the only female on the bus?’ because it’s like how can I answer that? I don’t know what it’s like to be a male! I can’t compare! I’m happy, the boys are nice, I’m generally nice, I think! So we just get along on on the bus. I don’t really know how to answer that one. That’s why I dread being asked that one.
A.P. That’s why I didn’t ask you!
H.C. Thank you!
She really is a fantastic personality, full of life and colour and emboldening the spirit of independence, unity and acceptance for all. Sounds pretty good to me.