With his brand new solo album Blood released last week and a host of sauces bubbling away in the kitchen, CJ Wildheart is in a buoyant mood. On a wet Wednesday in Harrogate CJ opens up about Blood, The Wildhearts, Cooking, his health and being his own sole trader – By Guy Shankland.
Original Rock. ‘Blood’ sounds quite autobiographical is that correct?
CJW. “ It is yeah, all my songs are about myself or experiences that I’ve had, on this one people have really picked up on that. I think it’s because I’m venting so it’s easier to hear, I’m either angry or frustrated.
OR. That definitely comes across especially on ’Tea Leaf’* which starts quite nicely, eases you in then creeps up behind you and smacks you across the back of the head. Who or what is ’Tea Leaf’ about?
*Tea Leaf is cockney rhyming slang for thief.*
CJW. “Tea Leaf is actually about managers or agents, every band has had various managers, agents or labels that have ripped them off. I’ve been making music since I was a teenager and I turn Fifty in Two months, there have been times on my journey where I’ve been ripped off so that’s what it’s about, THIEVES!”
OR. Is this more of a problem when you’re a younger artist and everything is a bit more starry and you’re a little bit more gullible, or does it continue as you get older?
CJW (cutting in, laughing) “Or full of drugs!”
OR. Well you, along with the band The Wildhearts lived it…
CJW “What money we didn’t piss down the toilet was stolen off us. It’s a double-edged sword, I mean, you can look at big record deals, which I haven’t got a problem with, but the labels take a huge chunk of money, huge. It’s not ethical so their tea leafs as well but I don’t have a problem with that because you get benefits signing to a big label, massive. The Wildhearts wouldn’t have the following we have now, I wouldn’t be making money now if it wasn’t for the investment Warner Bros made in the band all those years ago. Generally, there’s a lot of tea leafs in the music industry, there was back in the day and there still is now.”
OR. Was that the price of an education?
CJW. “Not really, it happens in all walks of life really, (pausing) Back then we were signing huge deals, it looked like everyone had massive deals, it seemed a lot easier to get deals then. With a band like The Wildhearts, we were a Rock ‘N’ Roll band you know, we didn’t get into music just to play music there was a lifestyle that we loved living. Unfortunately for us, sometimes we were just a little too high to pay attention to what was going on around us, but it’s a story and the end of the day, and a good one.”
OR. It makes a story and if you can come through the other side then all good.
CJW. “I’m alright you know, I feel ok, so I feel like I’ve come through it relatively unscathed.”
OR. What was the thought behind the album’s artwork?
CJW.” The reason it’s called ‘Blood’ and the reason its so angry is about two years ago I was in Japan touring with the Wildhearts and I got taken out for a really dodgy meal in Osaka by my record label out there. I was fed some undercooked pork and ingested some sought of a worm. Consequently, I ended up with being really ill for a couple of weeks, I was passing nothing but blood. I ruptured my whole digestive tract and for nearly two years it just wouldn’t heal. I had a couple of operations, I was on painkillers for a year and a half and in I was in constant pain. I was due a third operation which was most likely going to leave me incontinent and I thought “fuck this”. I went and had alternative therapy, Chinese acupuncture worked for me and cured the problem but for the whole of the recording process I was in agony. That’s why the albums called ‘Blood’. The tree represents me, being this old brown thing and roots are kind of like my backside passing blood, (laughing) so there you go!
OR. Of all the answers I was expecting, that is about as far away as possible.
CJW. “Some people think it’s about my family but it would be ‘Bloud man’. One of the reasons why I needed an alternative form of therapy was because I was facing having to wear nappies. There was no way I was going to play music live wearing a nappy. You can imagine being on stage with The Wildhearts in nappies, coming off stage and there being baby lotion changing mats and bottles, you can’t do it. I mean the endless piss takes, I mean we’re ruthless, I mean Danny (McCormack, Wildhearts bassist) has only got one leg and there’s CJ in nappies, its just no, it wouldn’t have happened. So I’m glad the alternative route worked.
OR. So are you now 100% clear.
CJW. “Yeah I’m good. (pausing) I took so many painkillers that I damaged my liver, I had to stop drinking. I was on codeine, tramadol and fifteen paracetamol a day, it was just relentless pain and now I’m not in pain anymore, I’m good. I have had the all clear from the consultant and they’ve cancelled my operation.
I was in so much pain that ’Blood’ had to be a really heavy album, I vented just let out all my frustrations. I’m so glad because I’ve rediscovered my Metal roots and the next albums going even heavier, I’m working on part two now. You know some people hit the bottle, some turn to crime, I used music as my therapy.”
OR. So I have to ask if you’ve got a really upset stomach is hot sauce the best thing for it?
CJW. “It’s really funny because I don’t suffer like most people do with spicy food, I never have, I’ve always been able to eat ridiculously hot meals and not have the problems most people have. It’s odd but I don’t get ring burn, I don’t suffer. Maybe it was just a build up of all the spicy food I ate, it just all came out at once.
OR. You released ’Blood’ via Pledgemusic, how important has Pledgemusic been in getting your music out to the people who want to hear it, and does it give you (the artist) greater control?
CJW. “Yeah massively, for an artist of my age, you know I don’t have a huge fan base. I could put my albums out on a label but I wouldn’t earn anything, there would be no money and this is my job, so if I don’t get paid I won’t be doing it, I’ll go and get another job. The minute I stop earning from music it’s time for me to go and do something else. I record on my own, then add drums after the albums made then go and mix it with a producer. I work at my home studio for about four to five months on each album. I know I’m gonna sell a certain amount via Pledge which enables me to do that. If I didn’t have the Pledge platform I don’t think I would be able to survive as a musician. The Wildhearts don’t do enough, we occasionally get together and do some shows and stuff but I cant rely on The Wildhearts to you know, feed my son or pay my mortgage. So Pledge is amazing, it’s a great platform if you’ve got a fan base, you go straight to the jugular. The album officially comes out at the end of this week, so you’ll be able to get in the shops then, but it comes out on my own label. I look at myself as errr Sole trader…that’s what I am an Arse Ole Trader!
I came really close to bringing out my own range of nappies at one point, I was actually looking at the nappy market (laughing) I think there’s a gap in the market.
OR. Are there any plans to do any live shows on the back of ‘Blood’?
CJW. “There was, I was in the process of putting together between eight to twelve-date tour but this was when I was not seriously well and I basically cancelled everything. I didn’t think I was going to get any better, I’d been ill for a year and a half I was just thinking, this isn’t going away, it’s getting worse so I cancelled everything and just decided to do something about my health. So basically I’m not doing any shows to promote this album but once the other albums out I will re-group my solo band and go out on tour. It might be next year.
OR. So no tour for ‘Blood’ but when the next one comes out we may see a live set of ‘Blood 1’ followed by ‘Blood part two?’
CJW. “The next album is going to be as heavy if not heavier so what I want to do is go out and do a really heavy tour and blast it all out. I’m not that worried about going out and doing eight to ten shows, I can wait until next year, it’s not that a big a deal.
OR. How far into Blood 2 are you?
CJW. “The new album is called ‘Siege’ as in under siege and my name is siege as well (CJ). I’ve got a song called ‘Judas’ which is almost finished and the next part of that is called ‘Jesus’, I don’t know if I’m going to do Bloody Mary! I had Roman Catholic upbringing until I got kicked out of the church so I’m writing about shit that really matters to me.
OR. You are going to have to write a book at some point,
CJW. “The only book I would be interested in writing is a cookbook, cooking is my number one passion.
OR. So the autobiography’s not going happen then?
CJW. “I doubt it, I would love to talk about the days when I was an altar boy and I used to change the holy water for tap water and watch babies being baptised in tap water! I was quite a bad child.
I was awful as a child, I’d never get told off so could get away with murder. I grew up on Army bases but my Dad wasn’t an officer so we weren’t allowed to pick the plums from the officer part of the base. I got caught picking plumbs from the trees and I got quite a telling off. This was also a military hospital so I found the syringe dump, I thought I’m gonna get you, you bastards. So we peed in the syringes, then injected as many plumbs from the tree as possible. Came back the next day and watched them (officers) picking the plumbs and eating them, saying “they’re so juicy!”
OR. Why are you telling me this!!
CJW. “Now you understand why the only job for me was The Wildhearts!”
OR. We know about The Wildhearts having a turbulent relationship, but is there any chance of a new Wildhearts album?
CJW. “ With the Wildhearts, (Pauses) Between me and Ginger, there’s a real chemistry with our voices and guitars. I think if we hadn’t had such a turbulent, friendship if you wanna call it that then it wouldn’t have sounded the same. We kind of, bring out the worst and the best in each other when we are performing. Yes, it’s overdue, who knows? The one thing with The Wildhearts is I’m always surprised, I always think we’re not going to do anything, then something happens, so don’t hold your breath but never say never.
I was having a chat with Ginger about a month ago and we both agreed that we were falling back in love with noisy music, with is a really good thing.”
OR. Finally on The Wildhearts, are they playing Ginger’s Birthday Bash on the 17th (Dec, Highbury Garage)?
CJW. “ I don’t know and that’s the honest truth. I’m actually going down to it so I will be getting up (on stage) but I don’t know if it’s going to be The Wildhearts.”
OR. So half a hearts then
CJW. “ I mean I’m definitely going to get up, so if I’m up there with Ginger it’s going to sound like The Wildhearts, oh Richie’s coming as well, so there’s a good chance me, Rich and Ginger will be up there.”
At this point we went onto questions from the Facebook page ‘All Things Ginger Wildheart’, questions from the floor….
(execpt*)
OR. What music do you listen to when your cooking/creating your sauces?
CJW. “I don’t like listening to music when I’m cooking. I like cooking on my own, I actually like the sound of the extractor fan!
OR. Have you be actively promoting your sauce range to customers outside The Wildhearts fan base and if so how successful have you been in promoting these new products to an audience that might not know your musical past? In a nutshell are you the new Levi Roots, working towards that big distribution deal?
CJW. “I don’t want to slag off Levi Roots but my sauce has chilli in it, no I’m not the next Levi Roots. I have tried his sauces, my three-year-old son could handle his hot sauce, it’s not what I’m about. I’ll be honest with you I don’t eat any of my own sauces because they’re not hot enough for me. If I was going to make a sauce for myself I don’t think many people would want it. The thing I most care about in a sauce is not how hot it is but the taste. All my sauces are full of flavour. I have trouble putting my sauce into shops, because of the name, Devilspit, not many people want that name on their shelves. Where I live in North Yorkshire, Harrogate, they have a lot of Deli type places but its quite posh. I turn up with my wares and they see these names, Blood hot sauce, Devilspit sauce, devils everywhere, it’s a bit to Iron Maiden for them.”
OR. Are you ever going to release a sauce hotter than Devilspit Extreme?
CJW. “I would love to a sauce which would be, my ultimate sauce but it would just be a false economy. My biggest selling sauce is always the medium ones, I’ll sell three bottles to every one of Extreme so maybe one day. This is like a hobby that pays for itself, but I don’t want to start losing money.
*OR. So does the sauce combined with the album keep you off the 9-5 treadmill
CJW. “Yeah they do, those and the odd Wildhearts show. I’m one of those people who does a lot of different things. If I can earn enough then I’ve earnt my money, I’m not like someone who’s always out looking to earn the big bucks. As long as my bills are paid, my son is fed, I always seem to have money in my pocket, so I can buy a pint, then I’m happy. It’s hard life in Harrogate.
OR. You’re a prolific songwriter, what was the lack of CJ penned songs on Wildhearts albums down to?
CJW. “Ginger is the songwriter in The Wildhearts, he has a certain style which has parts of my style in it but I have a slightly different style to Ginger. Whenever I’ve penned WH’s songs, (Pauses) there’s been a couple that sound like WH’s songs but they just don’t sit right. I think with The WH’s the core of the stuff needs to come from Ginger but you need us in the room together to make it sound like The Wildhearts. There’s a chemistry thing, it just works when the four of us are in the room together, it will sound like The Wildhearts. It has to be me and Ginger harmonising together, it has to be Rich on drums, that’s what the Wildhearts sound like.
*OR. What do the next twelve months have in store for CJ Wildheart?
CJW. “Working on my next album, I’ve bought a Ketchup out which has sold out, people really like so I’m looking at doing some of that. The Ketchup selling better than the spicy stuff so I may go down a milder route, it might be CJ Mayonnaise next. I’m getting on with Ginge so hopefully, there will be some Wildhearts stuff going on (The pair announced an Acoustic tour just after this interview, ticket links, if any left, below ) next year. Just the usual, making music, making hot sauce and hanging out with my son, loving my cat and just generally trying to enjoy life.”
CJ Wildheart is true to himself, opinionated, honest and real. Blood is a devilishly good album and well worth picking up and his sauces are delicious.
Ginger’s Birthday Bash tickets.
Tickets for December’s acoustic dates with Ginger
Check out Kiss It, from the album Blood, out now via Devilspit Records.